And it would be odd. Not just because of the flattering attention. Because his ascent has been pretty swift. When his career as an AFL player ended in 2015, he was left adrift. He tried out a number of different jobs — mentoring and advertising among them — but nothing stuck until he got his start working in the media six years ago as a commentator on the National Indigenous Radio Service. Like a duck to water, Armstrong found a career that allowed him space to be himself and talk about something he loves: footy. He started taking on radio hosting jobs on ABC Radio, which led to stints filling in for Paul Kennedy on ABC Television's News Breakfast as the sports presenter. In 2021, he was announced as the full-time sport presenter on News Breakfast. He also hosted various shows for the national broadcaster — A Dog's World, Great Australian Stuff and Tony Armstrong's Extra-Ordinary Things — and in the process, enchanted Australian audiences and media alike with his genuine inability to be anyone but himself.

But Armstrong is also an Aboriginal man who works in a public-facing role. And in a country like Australia, racism is still rife. So while there are plenty of articles that speak about his charm, charisma and the sparkle in his eye, it’s also true that he’s faced discrimination and abuse. The whiplash of that would be disorientating for anyone. One of the most admirable things about Armstrong is how he navigates that experience; calling it out when he needs to, but also not losing his head.

Which isn’t to say all of this hasn’t come at an immense personal cost. In October last year, he reached burn out and literally couldn’t get out of bed. “I was just totally run down,” he says. “I was like, okay, like this is it. That's enough,” he says. “I think we all understand what this feels like when we're not like the white dudes. It's like that feeling of never feeling established or never feeling like you are in a strong enough, stable position to be able to go, nah, I'm gonna do it on my own terms.”

So that’s what he’s doing. When we caught up to Armstrong, he was in the middle of a book tour for his first children’s book, George the Wizard, and a couple of months later, his latest show aired, Eat the Invaders (which you can now stream on ABC iView). Here, we chat to him about navigating life in the public eye, what comes next and how cats are one of the tastiest animals to eat.

InStyle: Hello! How are you going?

Tony Armstrong: Not bad. What have I been doing? Running around doing a kids book tour. So I'm sick of my own voice, which has been used a lot in a lot of different variations with characters and that kind of thing. It's been a lot of fun. But, I’m a bit sick and tired of telling the same story.

You finished up on the ABC News Breakfast Show at the start of October, right? So you would've gone straight into book tour stuff?

Yeah, pretty much. Finished up, had a week off and then book tour, which is fine. Would've liked a little bit more time off, but hey, we can't always get what we want.

You should like, go on a sabbatical or something. You know, maybe take a gap year?

Yeah, I'm gonna try to do less, that's for sure. And be a bit more purposeful about what I do. The thing about news was that I was struggling with sort of being tethered. So it’s nice not being tethered and just dipping into and out of jobs, which is kind of how I'll go forward from now on, I think. I just like trying different things. And like, I don't mind honestly if I'm not good enough at something. That doesn't phase me. I’m just now at a point where I'm like, I'll try it. If it doesn't work out, that's fine. But I don't want to get to like 55 or 60 and be like, ah, I wish I did that stage play, or whatever it is.

What is the thing that you wanna do at the moment?

Sleep. Um, no, what do I want to do? I'm working on a few scripted things. They're kind of, well, they’re not kind of, I hope they are actually comedies.

And in terms of your involvement, are you writing or…

Writing and then hopefully, you know, scripted takes forever, but hopefully if they get up then performing as well. That's where a lot of my energy's going at the moment. I had to stop doing news because I was like, I was killing myself trying to do everything. And that's the other thing, I'm super impatient. So I'm like, oh, sweet, can we make that five year journey, like six months? Is that, are we able to do that?

I mean, you are described as “irrepressibly charming”. So I'm like, if you can't make it happen, then—

I know where the bodies are buried. Don't tell anyone. No, I don't know. I just try to work hard and be nice. I don't always get it right. But that's a pretty good place to start from, I guess.

Have you always been like that though? Obviously you were big into sports and that’s how you kind of got into AFL but as a kid, were you the class clown? Did you have that performance streak?

So I went to boarding school. And basically you had to be able to spin a yarn pretty well, or you'd just get walked all over by everyone. It was pretty brutal. I'm catching up with all our friends and families from boarding school this weekend, actually. I say to everyone, and I mean this, I reckon I'm the least funny, least charismatic out of the lot of them.

Really?

Yeah, and growing up, you had to fight tooth and nail for your spot at the lectern. I think we all kind of naturally look for the humour in things. We all like having a bit of fun. Everyone, all the boys and girls, we can all talk to anyone. As a partner, you could just drop us all into any situation and you don't have to worry about us. We'll make friends with some random in the corner. I think that's kind of where a lot of this started. Like, where this ability was kind of honed. And then sort of footy as well. You don't realise it, but you go to all these functions and you get sat next to a CEO and you’re 18 and they're like the CEO of NAB or something and you're just talking as equals. And you don't realise what that's doing sort of, interpersonally, I guess. I was only talking about it the other day to one of my friends and we were like, there’s not many people who get to talk to those people ever. You know, and then to get exposure to it at such a young age. I think the life I've kind of led has all helped. I suppose you’re just a sum of what you've done.

But I understand why you would, especially in your position where you’ve been positioned within the media as ‘Australia's boyfriend’ and everyone talks about how you're so charming and you're so great and there's a lot of that kind of attention on you. You probably have to establish to people that actually, I'm not single.

Yeah, quite a bit. Rona and I had to make sure we were solid as well 'cause we kind of knew what was happening. And even saying that out loud, like, I hate all this. Why can't we just work through our stuff? Both good and bad and indifferent. All of that comes with being in a healthy relationship. But I'm pretty private to be honest. You're probably onto me in that I just spin the same sort of three yarns the whole time. 'Cause I'm like, let's try to charm people past it. But yeah, these are really good questions because yeah, it's stressful. And it's another thing on the relationship load, I suppose. Which, you know, Rona is doing amazing things. She's flying all over the world, working on her music. She's an amazing producer and DJ, doing all that kind of stuff. So it's already like a pressure on the relationship, 'cause we don't see as much of each other as we'd like, so that's enough for a normal relationship to be dealing with. And I'm really proud of us, we're killing it. But yeah, it's just another thing where it's like, again, I'm not trying to bite the hand that feeds me because I understand, I totally get it. But it's just another thing to consider, which I would much rather not have to.

But both things can be true: that it's a reality of the job that you're in, but that doesn't make it pleasant to have to deal with.

I'm a nightmare for the publicists at the Logies and those sorts of things. Unfortunately I tend to be a person of interest, so they spend most of their time wrangling me.

Is there a level of like, feeling objectified in the way that people did position you in that sense?

Oh, at the start for sure. I mean, thankfully it's kind of backed off. But yeah, I think at the very start there was some pretty red hot shit and it crossed the line a bit. But I think like, kicking up a stink, it's just gonna make more problems. So I was just like, you know what, I told a couple of my friends, I was like, oh, I'm feeling a bit funny about this. And they're like, yeah, I can see why.

And then on top of that, being an Aboriginal man in the public eye can come with its own pressures and difficulties because of racism. You’ve been a part of so many “firsts”, and you talk about it really graciously in that it’s an enormous privilege that comes with that, but it’s also a lot of pressure.

It's a bit late for pats on the back with this, yeah.

There’s been a lot of discussion about the national broadcaster failing employees of colour. Is that something you experienced?

Not personally, but like, I mean, I was in this weird position, right? Where I was getting looked after. How do I talk about this the right way? Kind of like, because of the station that I had within the broadcaster, they would run towards my fires and they could kind of, not fix them, but they could support me much easier because I was getting opportunities. I was already getting all of that stuff that a lot of people might not have. So I kind of lived in a different ecosystem to people who were starting out. And even though I might've been there for the same amount of time, I just had a different path. So I was really well supported, but I know for sure, and we all know, that other people weren't. It's so weird to be like, yeah, when people were racist to me, I had it good, do you know what I mean?

You still didn't have it good.

But take [Adam] Goodsy for instance, if something happens to him, people go running. They're like, how can we help? What can we do? But it's not always the same for the person who's like right down the bottom of the rung or sort of stuck somewhere that they don't want to be.

This is separate to that, and you kind of touched on it earlier, but in terms of actually making the final call to leave, was there a moment where you were like, nah, I’m done?

I couldn't get out of bed. I was just totally run down. I've had my times where I might've pushed the boat out a bit far and the next morning I'm feeling like dog, but you just get there. But there was two and a half, three weeks I couldn't get out of bed and I was like, okay, like this is it. That's enough. That's my body saying I'm pretty cooked. I think as well, you know, I think we all understand what this feels like when we're not like the white dudes. It's that feeling of never feeling established or never feeling like you are in a strong enough, stable position to be able to go, nah, I'm gonna do it on my own terms. And so, you know, I look back on it now and I'm like, I was probably established enough maybe even a year ago. Maybe even 18 months ago, but I just didn't feel like it. So I kept going and to my own detriment, but also that's just insecurity and also you know, like just wanting, wanting finally on something that's a winner finally. So like, and now I'm like gonna walk away?

How has your perspective of what's important and what you want to do changed?

For me it's just sort of ego. There was probably a time when I was like, I need to be this, that, the other blah, blah, blah. Now I'm just like, whatever. My ego stuff is now just, I want the stuff I do to be good and I want to feel good about having done it. And I wanna be deliberate about what I do. Of course I'm gonna do things where I'm like, you know, need the cash or whatever it is. But I'm not gonna sort of compromise too much — you know, be it family time, being around Rona as much as I can, having time for my friends. Because you kind of sacrifice some facet of your life, whatever it is. Is it your health? Is it financially? Like, somewhere bear's the brunt, right? And we're not getting any younger and you know, like I'm old as, there's grays on the side here. It looks like that's all sun, I'm gray as.

You mentioned that your friends have kids and families. Is that something that you want in the future?

I mean down the line for sure, there's a bit that I'll be pretty keen on getting done first. But yeah, kids would be awesome. I love my friend's kids. They're just the best. They bring so much joy. It means you can just act like an idiot. And like, I'm gonna be such an embarrassing dad. It's gonna be the best

I feel for your future children. There's so much potential. It'll be great fodder for their psychologists, though.

Just keeping a whole industry afloat.

And so, tell me about your latest project, Eat the Invaders.

It's about the impact the invasive species have had on biodiversity here in Australia. So it's basically the story of colonisation, right? Each episode we identify an animal, we learn about the animal. Then we go and catch the animal organically — so, we hunt for it. Basically as we're going through it, we pose the question, could we eat the invader? As part of the solution to the damage that all these animals are having or doing or causing, we suggest: could part of the solution be to eat them? So, you know, is it putting calf on the menu? Is it putting cat on the menu? Because all of these animals do so much damage. Then changing the prejudiced ways we look at a lot of these animals from a food source point of view. And you know, cat tastes delicious.